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Butler oil cup covers
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:31 pm
by Mike Hage
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Help I'm trying to make these oil cup covers for my Butler double geared. I tried to press them out of copper but its not working. Any ideas?
Re: Butler oil cup covers
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:45 pm
by Gregg
Mike, what does the inside diameter of the cup need to be to fit? Allow enough clearance in your dies to form the cup. Looks like it is wanting to punch a hole in your material. The old one pictured appears to have relief cuts in it to allow deeper form. You might check your local plumbing supply and see if they have any copper caps close to the size you need.
Gregg
Re: Butler oil cup covers
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:18 am
by mtblah
Gregg , great idea , copper from the plumbing supply co , that one needs to be added to the resources section .
Re: Butler oil cup covers
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:30 am
by Windcatcher530 Dan
Mike me and my brother had the same problem making covers for my Samson. Try heating the copper a little and rounding the edges of the male press piece also go very slow. Or like Gregg said try to find copper pipe Caps.
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Re: Butler oil cup covers
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:37 am
by Mike Hage
Thanks guys. The cups are 1 1/4id. I thought that if they don't fit quite tight to glue a thin magnet on the inside to hold them.
Re: Butler oil cup covers
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:34 am
by Gregg
Just did a quick search on line, a place called Supply House has copper pipe caps for $3.10 each. I do not know anything about the company, but I am sure they are available locally,.
Gregg
Re: Butler oil cup covers
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:59 pm
by Mike Hage
Hey Dan those square covers on the samson look really nice. The Butler has 3 of those as well. Can I see a close up of the corners? What did you do?
Re: Butler oil cup covers
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:41 am
by Windcatcher530 Dan
Mike it was a lot of trial and error.at first we had the had the tolerance to tight between the male and female press and the copper was ripping.so we beveled and rounded the top of the male piece.there was excess on the corners after pressing so I just hammered them over and trimmed.
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Re: Butler oil cup covers
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:16 am
by hwy8
A couple of years ago, I decided to duplicate some 5" square copper Fleur-de-lis from a 100 year old outdoor clock. I brushed some latex mold material onto an original one, and when that set, I used "Lab Metal" to make positive and negative sides of a mold to use on my hydraulic press. I used some sheet copper that I had laying around and thoroughly heated it up with my propane torch to anneal it. After it cooled, I did the first press which in fact, was only 1/2 way pressed into the mold: I then re-annealed the copper and when it had cooled, I completed the pressing. Because I was going to be trimming and working in some additional detail, I annealed it one more time just for good measure. BTW, the pressing is just about 1.5" deep.
In my very limited experience, when pressing like this, it's really important to "steer" the metal. That is, "what direction are you sending the excess in order to prevent unwanted folding, etc.?" (Marx Toy Co. made all of those lithographed tin toys when we were kids and they're famous for knowing exactly what they were doing.) In my case, as always, some dumb luck helped out. Annealing/softening the copper definitely is important and taking it easy on the pressure and speed is too. In some photos of pressing operations, I have seen them using a lot of lubrication to help the metal move while it is being shaped; if I was using steel, I'd have tried it.
Mike, I think your tolerances might be too tight and your tooling is acting like a shear. It might be better to have something ball-shaped and push it into something without a sharp edge, more bowl-shaped. If you do it in a couple of steps, you could draw it out like someone that is hand-hammering a bowl. I'm guessing on that original cap in your photo, the pie-shaped cutouts in the skirt is where the fold was: After they cut the fold out, they tightened it up by softly hammering/shaping it.
Another very real consideration is the material: During the era that they making those covers, sheet ZINC was very commonly used. It is easily shaped, strong enough for the job, cheap and easy to find, very weatherproof and, it is self-healing. I'd vote for it over using copper. (Google: Sheet Zinc suppliers)
Burt
Re: Butler oil cup covers
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:17 am
by mtblah
Burt , thanks for the thurough explaniation , helps us work soft metals .
Mike B